Producer to Watch: Megan Ellison

Every month I typically pick a performer to watch, but this month its time to focus on a producer.  My boss sent me an article back in March of last year from Vanity Fair about upstart producer Megan Ellison.  Who is Megan Ellison, and why does she matter?  If you value quality film, she may be the future.  I wish I had as much of inside glance on this woman as Vanity Fair writer Vanessa Grigoriadis  (her article http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2013/03/megan-ellison-27-producer-zero-dark-thirty).  What I can do is paint an important picture about her importance to quality film through her time as "the most talked-about independent financier in Hollywood.

At 27 Megan Ellison already has an impressive list of production credentials:

True Grit (2010)
The Master (2012)
Zero Dark Thirty (2012)
Spring Breakers (2013)
Her (2013)
American Hustle (2013)
Upcoming Films:
Foxcatcher (2014)
Terminator 5 (2015)

Ellison is the daughter of billionaire Oracle Corporation CEO Larry Ellison; she started with some minor funding some projects back in 2006 for minor projects.  Ellison's biggest pay-off was her investment in the 2010 remake of the Coen Brothers film True Grit, which made a good amount of money.  After Grit she was given more money to invest, in other films.  Ellison has also founded Annapurna Pictures.  The goal of the film production company on their website is to "produce sophisticated high-quality films that might otherwise be deemed risky by contemporary Hollywood studios"

If you look at the list of films listed above you will see two Best Picture nominees, and three films with acting nominations.  Her and American Hustle have yet to make their impact, but Hustle will most likely make the Best Picture race.  These films are also quite good, and will make their mark on film history.  An interesting fact about Ellison is that she outbid Lionsgate for the rights of The Terminator franchise in 2011, which gives me hope for the future of that film series.

Megan Ellison is a woman to watch, its rare to see a female producer out there in the trenches fighting for quality film.  There are some big names out there like Laura Ziskin, but at such a young age Megan Ellison is a producer to watch, and a person who could change the game the way the Weinstein Brothers did many years ago.

Academy Award Week (2013) Best Original Screenplay

Typically the Original Screenplay category has a pretty clear, or there has been a lack of competitive scripts which could compete within this category.  This category tends to honor films based on the following categories

The Unique Wins

What are the unique wins?  In my mind these are somewhat anomalies, and while they may make sense  during the year or in hind sight, there is something truly unique about their wins.

2002-Talk to Her (Hable Con Ella)-Foreign films rarely get a win in major categories outside of Best Foreign Language Film in the "major" categories.  Pedro Almodovar had another nomination in Best Director, but the film was not nominated in the Foreign Language film category.  On the other hand you had 10 time nominee Gangs of New York, the popular Nia Vardalos for My Big Fat Greek Wedding, and a multiple nominee Far from Heaven.

2004-Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind-This could be seen as a consolation prize, but this was a two time nominee with only a nomination for this and Kate Winslet.  Sunshine was up against more typical films like The Aviator, Hotel Rwanda, The Incredibles, and even Vera Drake.  Sunshine's win was somewhat expected in the sense that the film was very respected, but the film does not fit the norm.

2008-Milk-This was not a consolation prize, Penn won Actor (although people may not have known this was going to happen), but rarely does a bio-pic on this level win within this category.

Best Picture Sweep 

The Best Picture and Original Screenplay have only lined up 15 times in Oscars history, which does not bode well for the winners in this category, unless you are a massive Oscar favorite in the Best Picture category.

2005-Crash-At the time of the ceremony I saw this win as a consolation prize, but this ended up going along with the sweep.  It was easy to predict this win, but this one of those rare times when it predicted Best Picture.

2009-The Hurt Locker-The Hurt Locker vs. Avatar in Best Picture, on awards night The Hurt Locker won more than was expected, and this was a surprise as well.  My thought and many other people predicted Inglorious Basterds would win this as a consolation prize.

2010-The King's Speech-Like Hurt Locker this was one of those wins that was fierce battle, and it's competition was Inception.  Speech was not qualified for the WGA, but won at the BFCA, and BAFTA.  With few wins Speech needed this the way Argo needs adapted screenplay to help amass more wins.

The Consolation Prize (I Have to Win Somewhere)

Statistically this is where most of the winners fit.  All of the films (except Almost Famous) were nominated for Best Picture, and a few other awards, but this was the only win, which made sense.

2000-Almost Famous was snubbed in the Best Picture category the Miramax machine's Chocolat.  Almost Famous only received four nominations, but was a respected film from from Jerry Maguire nominee Cameron Crowe; he won to give the film some attention.

2001-Gosford Park-Park had lots of stiff competition from Memento, and The Royal Tenenbaums, but Park was the most "Oscar bait" film.  Park made the most sense as a winner, and it was the only Best Picture nominee.

2003-Lost in Translation, 2006-Little Miss Sunshine, 2007-Juno-All three of these films fit within the quirky comedy category.  Translation had the Copola name, and was solid.  Sunshine and Juno had heart mixed with quirk, which could never be taken seriously anywhere else.  While Arkin won for Sunshine that was not expected at all.

2011-Midnight in Paris-Midnight in Paris was another great Woody film, which never had a shot at Best Picture, but was one of the most respected films of the year.

So who wins this year....And the Nominees Are....

Amour-Michael Haneke

Django Unchained-Quentin Tarantino

Flight-John Gatins

Moonrise Kingdom-Wes Anderson, and Roman Coppola

Zero Dark Thirty-Mark Boal

Moonrise Kingdom and Flight, only have one, and two nominations respectively, they are out.  This is one of the tougher races to predict.  Django has won the Golden Globe, BAFTA, and BFCA, which gives it the best odds.  Django has a lot of respect, but why the Academy would honor one of the weakest screenplays is beyond me.  Zero Dark Thirty won the WGA, but Django was ineligible.  The difference between 2009 and this year is that Django has the edge because in 2009 Hurt Locker won all the awards Django won.  Yet can Amour pull off that unique foreign language film win, it has five other nominations. At the moment my winner prediction is Django, but this may change.

Will Win: Django Unchained

Spoilers: Amour then Zero Dark Thirty

Oscar Roundup 2012: The Writer's Guild go for Zero Dark Thirty, Argo, and Searching for Sugar Man

While out to brunch yesterday I was talking with two friend who had went to the all day event showing half of the Best Picture nominees, put on by the movie theatre chain AMC.  They are not Academy voters, but I have this suspicion as avid film watchers their perspective is one similar to many people who are voting.  They were enamored Argo, and that was their favorite film.  In their words Argo was so good!  Not to the diminish their thoughts, but I think the complexity of Argo is minimal, and Oscar voters mostly older are going to pick a safer film for them.

Before I go further the next couple of thoughts are not a rant against Argo.  Argo is one of the best films of the year, the best no, but what has happened this season is what typically happens with the Best Picture race.  While Argo is not exactly a "safe" film to win, it is in fact a film glorifies Hollywood, for"saving the day."  Argo is a well made film, but how is it beating Lincoln in every area? In most years Lincoln would have steam rolled through this awards season, it's an important historical bio-pic, with an Academy Awards pedigree behind the film., Lincoln is even the highest grossing film.  All of these elements contribute in most years add up to Best Picture winner.

Now I have Argo ranked higher than Lincoln in my top ten list, Argo is ranked 5th, and Lincoln 9th.  Why is Argo on this journey to Oscar gold?  Was it really them snubbing Ben Affleck?  This can't be the only factor especially since Bigelow was an even bigger snub (in mu opinion) for Zero Dark Thirty.  Yet the snub has put Argo on a much different path than Zero Dark Thirty.  Zero Dark Thirty may have lost out more because of the torture controversy, but in the film cannon Zero Dark Thirty will always be seen as the strongest film of the year, Lincoln the shockingly ignored, and Argo will be seen as over rewarded.  Sorry Ben Affleck.

I am bringing things back to the intent of the post, right now I promise.  Argo won Best Adapted Screenplay over Lincoln.  I am still a bit shocked by this, and while I like the Argo script more, Lincoln's was the front runner in this category even through the Argo stampede at SAG.  I predicted Lincoln still, but I guess I was wrong, and I have to think all of these guilds really got together and sat down and all marked Argo.  Films rarely win almost every guild.  I am still a bit baffled at how this happened, but it has, and maybe some things are best left unexplained.

Zero Dark Thirty won for Best Original Screenplay, but was not up against it fiercest competition Amour and Django Unchained.  Which means predicting Best Original Screenplay like many categories is a massive crap shoot.  This category may actually end up being the award bone they throw at Zero Dark Thirty.

Throughout the years the Oscars always like to give most of the Best Picture nominees at least one win.  Last year 4 of the 9 went home empty handed, but one of those four only had two nominations, and one had three nominations, leaving the final two films with 6 nominations each.  Does this help Zero Dark Thirty, no namely because the film only scored five nominations much like Amour and Django's totals.

In the end the WGA Awards only tell us a few things, Argo has officially won Best Picture, Original Screenplay like other categories is a massive surprise, and Searching for Sugar Man will win Documentary feature.

BEST ADAPTED SCREENPLAY
"Argo"
Screenplay by Chris Terrio
Based on a selection from The Master of Disguise by Antonio J. Mendez and the Wired Magazine article “The Great Escape” by Joshuah Bearman

BEST ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY
"Zero Dark Thirty"
Written by Mark Boal

BEST DOCUMENTARY SCREENPLAY
"Searching for Sugar Man"
Written by Malik Bendjelloul

Argo Wins at Producer's Guild Awards (PGA), Along with Wreck-it Ralph, andModern Family, and Homeland Win on the TV Side

Tonight Argo is continuing its massive awards haul in Best Picture categories taking home the top prize, the Daryl F. Zanuk Award for Outstanding Producer of a Theatrical Motion Picture, or the Best Picture award at the Producer's Guild of America.  This film has won three major Best Picture awards from the PGA Broadcast Film Critics Association (BFCA), and the Golden Globes.  Will Argo win at the Oscars?  Argo is missing one key component a Best Director nominee, and the last and only film to win without a Best Director nomination was Driving Miss Daisy (1989).  Films also typically win Best Picture, and Best Director, the two honors seems to come as a pair more often than not (but not always).  Let's look at the last few years to see how the PGA has done:

2011: "The Artist"
2010: "The King's Speech"*
2009: "The Hurt Locker"*
2008: "Slumdog Millionaire"*
2007: "No Country for Old Men"*
2006: "Little Miss Sunshine"
2005: "Brokeback Mountain"
2004: "The Aviator"
2003: "The Lord of the Rings: "The Return of the King"*
2002: "Chicago"*
2001: "Moulin Rouge!"
2000: "Gladiator"*

From 2000 through 2011, 8 of 12 films that won at the PGA went on to win at Oscar.  The Last time a film won at PGA and not at the Oscars was 6 years ago, and that was Little Miss Sunshine.  Let's look at the year's Oscar and PGA did not line up.

In 2006 the PGA winner was Little Miss Sunshine and the Oscar winner was The Departed.  First strike Little Miss Sunshine was a comedy with no director nomination, or editing nomination  up against Martin Scorsese who had never won an Oscar.  Little Miss Sunshine won SAG too, while Martin Scorsese won DGA.  To be fair films directed by two people rarely get nominations for both directors at Oscars, West Side Story was an exception, but it was West Side Story.

2005 the PGA went to Brokeback Mountain and the Oscar went to Crash.  Brokeback was the overwhelming favorite, but was missing one key component, a Best Editing nomination, which Crash received and won.  The editing nomination is one of the biggest components or clues as to who can win at the Oscars.  Crash also won SAG, but was not nominated at the Globes, one of the rare times the Best Picture was not even nominated at the Globes.

2004 the PGA went to The Aviator and Oscar went to Million Dollar Baby.  This really was the Aviator vs. Million Dollar Baby Oscars.  The Aviator cleaned up in the tech categories winning Best Editing, Art Direction, Costume Design, Cinematography and Best Supporting Actress.  Meanwhile Million Dollar Baby won Picture, Director, Actress, and Supporting Actor.  The Aviator actually won more awards, than the Best Picture winner, but everyone loved Clint!  During this season there was a clear split in what was "the best" critics and SAG went for Sideways, Globes and PGA went for The Aviator, but DGA picking Clint Eastwood was a sign the Oscars were going to change things.

2001 Moulin Rouge! won PGA and A Beautiful Mind won the Oscar.  A Beautiful Mind won the Globe for Best Drama, and Ron Howard won the DGA.  This started to that concept of a lack on consensus trend, which you see in 2004 and 2006.

A Beautiful Mind, Million Dollar Baby, and The Departed (although a little violent for their taste) were or felt like the right picks from the Academy's point of view.  A Beautiful Mind was a clever bio-pic.  Million Dollar Baby was about an upstart female boxer.  The Departed was a chance to finally honor Marty.  The only unexplainable year is 2005, but the lack of a Best Editing nomination helps with that (somewhat).  Brokeback losing was an interesting sign that Hollywood may not be as ok with "the gay thing" as one would expect.

So what does this mean for Argo?  Argo was not the critics darling that was Zero Dark Thirty and Amour, but they are not going to win the top prize this year.  Lincoln has the most nominations, but Daniel Day-Lewis appears to be the only person winning for that right now.  Life of Pi like The Aviator will clean up in the tech categories or at least do well like Hugo last year.  Tonight's SAG awards will either clear things up or make things cloudier and less predictable.  The Weinstein Machine will most likely steam roll the competition giving Silver Linings Playbook the win.  In that case who ends up on top?  The odd answer is Lincoln.  This year looks like those years that lack consensus, and what film came out on top most of the time, the one with little to no solid precursor strength.  That would be Lincoln.  

Argo won here tonight because of the hard work the producers to get this film made, and this film could repeat at the Oscar in Best Picture, this is within the realm of possibility.  The true test will be the guild awards and who wins.  SAG, DGA, WGA, and ACE. If Argo wins any two of these consider the Best Picture race over.  SAG will likely go to Silver Linings Playbook.  DGA could go to Affleck, but they could also pick Spielberg.  WGA will go to Lincoln's script.  ACE (the editing guild) is the one to watch.  If Argo wins this guild and DGA, along with their PGA win then they should out step Lincoln.  Zero Dark Thirty has a great shot with this guild, and this prize on Oscar night, so they should watch their step.  If you want to win your Oscar pool at work, pay attention to these awards.  At the his point Best Picture is still anyone's guess.

Here are the rest of the winners: 

The Award for Outstanding Producer of Animated Theatrical Motion Pictures
Wreck-It Ralph (Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures)
Producer: Clark Spencer

The Award for Outstanding Producer of Documentary Theatrical Motion Pictures
Searching For Sugar Man (Sony Pictures Classics)
Producers: Malik Bendjelloul, Simon Chinn

The Norman Felton Award for Outstanding Producer of Episodic Television, Drama
Homeland (Showtime)
Producers: Henry Bromell, Alexander Cary, Michael Cuesta, Alex Gansa, Howard Gordon, Chip Johannessen, Michael Klick, Meredith Stiehm

The David L. Wolper Award for Outstanding Producer of Long-Form Television
Game Change (HBO)
Producers: Gary Goetzman, Tom Hanks, Jay Roach, Amy Sayres, Steven Shareshian, Danny Strong

The Danny Thomas Award for Outstanding Producer of Episodic Television, Comedy
Modern Family (ABC)
Producers: Cindy Chupack, Paul Corrigan, Abraham Higginbotham, Ben Karlin, Steven Levitan, Christopher Lloyd, Jeff Morton, Dan O’Shannon, Jeffrey Richman, Chris Smirnoff, Brad Walsh, Bill Wrubel, Danny Zuker

The Award for Outstanding Producer of Non-Fiction Television:
American Masters (PBS)
Producers: Prudence Glass, Susan Lacy, Julie Sacks

The Award for Outstanding Producer of Competition Television
The Amazing Race (CBS)
Producers: Jerry Bruckheimer, Elise Doganieri, Jonathan Littman, Bertram van Munster, Mark Vertullo

The Award for Outstanding Producer of Live Entertainment & Talk Television
The Colbert Report (Comedy Central)
Producers: Meredith Bennett, Stephen Colbert, Richard Dahm, Paul Dinello, Barry Julien, Matt Lappin, Emily Lazar, Tanya Michnevich Bracco, Tom Purcell, Jon Stewart

The Award for Outstanding Sports Program
Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel (HBO)

The Award for Outstanding Children’s Program
Sesame Street (PBS)
“The Weight of the Nation for Kids: The Great Cafeteria Takeover” (HBO)

If I Picked the Oscar Nominees......

Best Picture
Amour
Argo
Beasts of the Southern Wild 
Holy Motors
Lincoln
Looper
The Master
Moonrise Kingdom
Skyfall
Zero Dark Thirty

Best Director                                                                               
Ben Affleck-Argo
Kathryn Bigelow-Zero Dark Thirty
Michael Haneke-Amour
Paul Thomas Anderson-The Master
Benh Zeitlin-Beasts of the Southern Wild

Best Lead Actor 
Phillip Seymour Hoffman-The Master
Dennis-Lavant-Holy Motors
John Hawkes-The Sessions
Daniel Day Lewis-Lincoln
Joaquin Phoenix-The Master

Best Lead Actress
Jessica Chasstain-Zero Dark Thirty
Jennifer Lawrence-Silver Linings Playbook
Emanuelle Riva-Amour
Quevenzhane Wallis-Beasts of the Southern Wild
Rachel Weisz-The Deep Blue Sea

Best Supporting Actor
Alan Arkin-Argo
Jason Clarke-Zero Dark Thirty                                       
Dwight Henry-Beasts of the Southern Wild
Tommy Lee Jones-Lincoln
Bruce Willis-Moonrise Kingdom

Best Supporting Actress
Emily Blunt-Looper
Ann Dowd-Compliance
Sally Field-Lincoln
Anne Hathaway-Les Miserables
Helen Hunt-The Sessions

Best Adapted Screenplay
Argo
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Lincoln
The Perks of Being a Wallflower
Silver Linings Playbook

Best Original Screenplay
Amour
The Cabin in the Woods
Looper
The Master 
Moonrise Kingdom                                              
                                                                                                
Best Foreign Language Film
Amour
Holy Motors
Rust and Bone 

Best Cinematography
Beasts of the Southern Wild 
The Master
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Skyfall

Best Costume Design
Anna Karenina 
Cloud Atlas 
Lincoln
Moonrise Kingdom
Mirror Mirror 

Best Film Editing                                                              
Argo
Cloud Atlas
The Master 
Zero Dark Thirty
Skyfall

Best Makeup and Hair Styling
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey
Lincoln
Snow White and the Huntsmen
                                                                                                        
Best Original Score 
Argo 
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Lincoln 
The Master 
Moonrise Kingdom

Best Production Design
Anna Karenina 
Cloud Atlas 
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Moonrise Kingdom

Best Sound Editing
Argo
The Avengers
Life of Pi
Skyfall
Zero Dark Thirty

Best Sound Mixing                                                      
The Avengers 
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Skyfall
Zero Dark Thirty 

Best Visual Effects      
The Avengers
Life of Pi 
Looper
Prometheus
Skyfall                                                                                                 
                                                                                                 

Top Ten Films of 2012

Within this list I used my own words from past reviews, and ranked my top ten films of 2012.

1-Zero Dark Thirty

"This is one of the best films of the year, the subject matter is handled beautifully, by the geniuses Bigelow, and Boal.  Along with Chastain this team is complete, and they work together effortlessly. Zero Dark Thirty is a thrilling ride into the search for a monster, and never lets you leave the edge of your seat."

Of all the films this year Zero Dark Thirty proves to be allegorical to the evolving theme of the film. In an changing society the hunt for a terrorist provides relief yet anguish.  The way Bin Laden was found harkens to the simplicity, with a take down by Navy S.E.A.L.S.  Yet the brutal tactics of torture and cultural differences add to changing global conversation. In a closing thought of where do you want to go next, the question is left to relieve, but haunt. This is the smartest, film of the year, and the team of Bigelow and Boal did it again!

2-Beasts of the Southern Wild

“For Benh Zeitlin's first major feature film this is one of the most masterfully directed films.  Zeitlin's work with the camera, and his actor's, none have which had done any major motion picture, proves that the energy and heart behind a director can make a film.  Zeitlin not only directed the film, but her helped write the screenplay, and helped compose one of the best scores of the year.  As you watch Beasts you would imagine that Zeitlin is an experienced filmmaker, who has mastered the craft of film making and has been making movies for years.  It's not the years that count, but the passion behind the auteur, and Zeitlin's work on this film is nothing short of amazing.”

3-Amour

“Haneke's direction and script brilliantly unfold a tale filled with moments of agony, grief, but ultimately filled with love.  As you watch Georges struggle, or Ann slip further into illness their connection may hit rough patches. Haneke does not spell out his direction with 100 percent certainty; he often works in the grey leaving ambiguity for the viewer to decide the meaning of a touch, a look, or silent moment.  This helps further strengthen the depth of the story, and makes the performances in his film even stronger.”

4-The Master

“One of the brilliant aspects of this film is the way Paul Thomas Anderson focuses on Joaquin Phoenix's Quell and the disillusionment he faces in a post World War II society.  Most people always painted the 50s as this golden era of family values, the husbands/men came home from the war they got their plot of land in Levitttown, settled with their "girl" and led a happy life.  Anderson uses the concept of this lost soul and the newly developed "religion" which takes advantage of those people had no place when they came back from the War.”

5-Argo

“The star of this film (in all ways possible) is leading man/director Ben Affleck.  Affleck moves away from Boston and into the terrain of Hollywood and Iran.  One of my favorite lines in the script comes from the fake make-up artists on the film John Chambers (John Goodman) in which he states "So you want to come to Hollywood and and act like a big shot without actually doing anything?..You will fit right in."  This along with the line about anyone being able to direct are laugh out loud moments, but Affleck proves everyone may be able to point the camera, and shoot, but not everyone can create such great work.  This is one of the best films of the year, and Affleck's direction helps set the stage for everything to be made possible.”

6-Moonrise Kingdom

“We Anderson does an incredible job making the children the center focus of the story while creating interesting and complex supporting characters out of the major stars.  Murray and McDormand are great are Suzy's parents, and they add their brilliant comic flare.  Norton rarely gets to flex his comedic chops, which is a shame because he is a talented actor who can do it all, and I love watching him take his role as Troop Leader 55 so seriously.  I was struck most by Bruce Willis; he hit this role out of the park, and has done some of the best acting I have ever seen him do, his raw emotion mixed with great wit is terrific in this film.  Then there were the great small roles for the flawless Tilda Swinton, the straight man Harvey Keitel, and the incredible Jason Schwartzman who always shines in his films.

7-Holy Motors

“Director Leo Carax a former film critic, takes you on a journey fitting together these different puzzle pieces to create something much larger about film.  Carax worked on a larger budget American film, but the film never came to life. With this project never coming to life Carax, started working on this low budget film, and was finally brought to the screen 13 years after his last picture.  Motors feels  like director David Lynch's Mullholland Dr. both providing a sharp critique on movies today, and the evolution of the modern cinema.  The "actor" goes from gig to gig without the emotional understanding of the part or faking the way they feel about the character.  One of the funniest moments was when Lavant played the dying millionaire whose step niece was grieving for him.  After he said his goodbye in what would be defined as on screen, Monsiuer Oscar gets up asks the girl her name and walks out of the room.”

8-Skyfall

“One of the brilliant aspects of this film is the sense of a world changing, but that this change is causing more chaos than good.  The post 9/11 world where the terrorist runs rampant, and is beyond the simple bald man stroking a cat, the villain has to be smoked out the old fashioned way.  How is the James Bond character relevant, or is he?  This franchise poses the question that was established in Casino Royale.  Bond has to become a new man, even though he may not be ready or even up to the challenges of the the people he will have to face.  Craig tackles this role better than ever in this film, not only showing that he can kick ass, but continuing to show the evolution the character started in this "reboot."

9-Lincoln

“As Daniel Day Lewis steps on stage, there is chill that passed down my spine, something he often invokes with his acting, or presence.  Day Lewis is a brilliant as Lincoln; he brings to life the man, his speeches, and shows you just how comfortable he was connecting with the masses.  Lincoln was one of the few Presidents we have had who came from nothing, Day Lewis connects with this aspect of Lincoln, and proves that within him there is a way for you to connect with him in this role on every level in believe in the greatness of this man.”

10-Looper

“Johnson's script and direction are key players in bringing this world to life.  Bob Ducsay's editing brilliantly blends the complicated elements of the story.  There are moments when you feel that the complicated nature of the story could hold the film back, but Docsay's editing helps strengthen the power of the story, with quick cuts that blend the stories of young and old Joe.”